Chain Gang
American prisons have been a source of cheap labor since their very inception. Back in 2008, Brian talked with members of a prison work crew and asked about their experience working for low wages on the side of a road in Virginia. You might be surprised with what they have to say.
From “Land of the Free? The History of Incarceration in the U.S.”
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Brian Balogh:
Major funding for Backstory is provided by an anonymous donor. The National Endowment for the Humanities and the Joseph and Robert Cornell Memorial Foundation.
Brian Balogh:
From Virginia Humanities, this is Backstory.
Brian Balogh:
Welcome to Backstory. The show that explains the history behind today’s headlines. I’m Brian Balogh.
Brian Balogh:
If you’re new to the podcast, each week, along with my colleagues, Joanne Freeman, Nathan Connelly and Ed Ayers, we explore a different aspect of American history.
Brian Balogh:
In my time at Backstory, I’ve discussed a whole range of different topics with a lot of different people. I’ve talked to academic historians, sometimes even politicians. But the conversations that stand out most in my mind are the ones I’ve had with everyday people. People who have lived, made and engaged with history, sometimes in surprising ways.
Brian Balogh:
These are the people that are coming to grips with the product of history on a day to day basis, and of course these are the people who are quite literally making history as we podcast.
Brian Balogh:
So on today’s episode, I’m excited to share some of my favorite Backstory moments with you. This is part of an ongoing series we’re doing as Backstory wraps up after more than 12 years.
Brian Balogh:
You’ll learn about the American twist on a traditional Mexican dish and you’ll revisit a trip I took to the Blue Ridge Mountains to find out what life is like behind the walls of a Catholic convent. But first up, I wanted to share a conversation I had back in 2008 with members of a prison work crew on the side of a road in Virginia.
Brian Balogh:
Over the years, scholars have spent a lot of time talking about something they call the carceral state. It’s a term that refers to the criminal justice system. The power it gives to police officers, lawyers and judges, and how it disproportionately affects marginalized peoples. I wanted to know what’s like to live in the grips of the carceral state and to work on the side of a busy road on display to passing motorists in orange jumpsuits.
Brian Balogh:
I talked to our producers at Backstory because I had seen these people at work and I said, “You know, we’re doing a show on the history of prisons. I want to talk to those folks on the side of the road.” So here’s my conversation from Land of the Free, the History of Incarceration in the US.
Harris Bruce:
My name is Corporal Harris Bruce, from Albemarle Charlottesville Regional Jail. I’m the supervisor for the road gang. Today we is on Avon Street, cleaning up.
Brian Balogh:
My first question for you is, is this a punishment or is this a reward? I mean, I drive by, I think punishment. But then it occurs to me, this might be better than sitting in jail.
Harris Bruce:
It is. The guys enjoy coming out. I mean, they love the weather, they love the scenery. This is actually a gift.
Brian Balogh:
So what have these guys done to earn this gift?
Harris Bruce:
Well, depending on the years they got. If they were sentenced us for three years or less, they can ask to come on board. A lot of guys can’t come on due to the fact they got over three years and their crimes. Like cocaine and stuff that can’t come out. Assault charges, they can’t come on. These guys were here is mainly child support, DUI type guys, so they can actually come out and work.
Brian Balogh:
We are a history show and certainly over the course of history, one form of punishment for people who have committed crimes has been kind of public humiliation, public shame.
Brian Balogh:
So putting people in stocks and we’ve heard about the Scarlet Letter for adulterers. Is there anything about making these guys wear our orange and having them along this pretty well traveled street here that entails humiliation? Are they embarrassed?
Harris Bruce:
No, no. Actually the orange is an indication of the best inmates that we have in a building. The worst inmates, actually, I say worst, the guys that can’t come out, they wear black and white. These guys right here wear oranges mainly. They are trustees and they can be trusted. I tell you what, I’ll go get one.
Brian Balogh:
All right.
Brian Balogh:
I really appreciate you talking to us today. I want to get a view from your perspective of what this is all about. At least Corporal Bruce says that this is a privilege to be able to come out here, get a little fresh air.
Brian Balogh:
Now he’s carrying that big stick and has a gun. So I understand you have to think carefully about how you answer this question but what is it like for you to… Is this a punishment or is this a reward for you?
Speaker 3:
Mentally being away from my family, just being incarcerated, period, that is punishment. You know what I’m saying? But as far as being out here? No, man, it’s a privilege, man. I love it. I get to come out here and get fresh air, you know what I’m saying? Sunlight. A lot of people don’t have that privilege. They’re confined to a small space all day, got to look at a whole bunch of other people that’s just like them. I mean, I don’t know.
Brian Balogh:
We’re standing out here by a road. People are driving by. How do you feel about the public aspect of this? Are you ashamed or do you see people sometimes? Anyone ever ask someone to get you a cheeseburger on the way? Or how does that work?
Speaker 3:
Sometimes, it’s sometimes, see, I’m from Albemarle County. So sometimes depending on the area when I do feel a little ashamed but I mean, this program takes very good care of me, you know what I’m saying? I get paid for what I do, so I don’t have to call home, ask for money or anything like that, so basically I see it, they’re going to work, so am I.
Brian Balogh:
Can I ask you how much you get paid for this?
Speaker 3:
We get paid $3 a day. $15 a week.
Brian Balogh:
Uh-huh (affirmative) Can I ask you how long you’ve been in prison?
Speaker 3:
I’ve been locked up, going on 22 months.
Brian Balogh:
And may I ask you when you think you’re going to get out?
Speaker 3:
I get out December 19th, God willing.
Brian Balogh:
May I ask you, and you don’t have to answer this, what you’re in for?
Speaker 3:
I’m here for a violation and driving on a revoked license.
Brian Balogh:
I see. Seems like a lot of time for revoked license.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, well, after they see you for a couple of times, more than twice, then they tend to lay the hammer down on you.
Brian Balogh:
Yeah. Do you think all this time you spent in prison is going to have any effect at all?
Speaker 3:
I’ll tell you what. The last few times I came to jail, I didn’t want to change my behavior. After this time, I can’t do it no more.
Harris Bruce:
What’s the difference?
Speaker 3:
Age. I’ve gotten older. I’ve matured. I’m 30 years old.
Harris Bruce:
30 years old.
Speaker 3:
Yep. In my adolescent days, I didn’t really care. I rip around the streets, didn’t really care much. But now I have kids, I got three children. So they need a father figure, you know what I’m saying? And I got to be a role model. I don’t want my sons to go through what I’ve had to go through.
Harris Bruce:
Could I ask you how often you get to see your kids?
Speaker 3:
I don’t. I don’t see them.
Harris Bruce:
You don’t see them?
Speaker 3:
No, I don’t.
Harris Bruce:
Is that the toughest thing about being in prison?
Speaker 3:
Yeah. That’s it.
Harris Bruce:
I can imagine. Well, I really appreciate you talking to me today and I wish you the best of luck.
Speaker 3:
Thank you.