Very Superstitious

Brian: We started the show by talking about the 13 club, which made fun of superstitions. Even so, I think it’s safe to say that the number 13 and Friday the 13th are still associated with bad luck.

Nathan Connolly: So just looking back at America’s history, is it worth being so fearful of the number 13? I mean, there’s a lot of good things that have happened. I think, for instance, [Brian 00:43:12], you and I from Miami can talk about Dan Marino having a great career as a number 13.

Brian: Yes. A terrific quarterback for the Miami Dolphins. At least until he tried to run, Nathan.

Nathan Connolly: That’s right. But what about thinking through the 13th president, Millard Fillmore? Is there a way that we can maybe rehabilitate his [inaudible 00:43:31].

Joanne Freeman: I don’t know. The Fillmore Factor. I think being the 13th president did not help him much. I mean, he’s actually … Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan come after him, and they’re much worse.

Brian: Yeah, absolutely. And Andrew Johnson.

Nathan Connolly: I don’t know. This all could be really blown out of proportion, right?

Brian: Well, look. Let’s make this personal. How many of you have changed your behavior because of 13?

Nathan Connolly: Hmm.

Joanne Freeman: The way that Friday the 13th, I would say, appears on my radar screen would be not that I do anything different about that day, but if something bad happens on a Friday the 13th, my response is “Oh, yeah, well, it’s Friday the 13th.”

Nathan Connolly: Right.

Brian: Yeah. That’s something. So maybe over hundreds of years, maybe those “Oh, it must be Friday the 13th” kind of gathers historical momentum.

Nathan Connolly: So it’s the story we can map onto bad happenings after the fact.

Brian: Exactly.

Joanne Freeman: Or do we, rather than blaming this on any luck or lack of luck inherent in the number 13, do we need to fear it because other people act goofy on things surrounding the number 13? In other words, are we really more talking about the impact of superstition and the way we have to accommodate for that?

Nathan Connolly: There’s some figure about there being some 630 buildings in New York City that are built 13 floors or higher, and of that number, less than 10% actually have a designated 13th floor.

Brian: That’s remarkable. Right? I mean, that is literally built into steel and concrete, this superstition.

Joanne Freeman: Well, and it’s goofy, too, right? Because they are living on the 13th floor if they’re on the 14th floor.

Brian: Shh. Do not tell them that, [Joanne 00:45:19].

Joanne Freeman: I’m really sorry. I’m really sorry. I’m really sorry. But so it’s about the number, right? It’s not even about the floor. It’s just about the number because of money.

Nathan Connolly: Because of money.

Brian: Now, that’s right.

Joanne Freeman: I mean, let’s put that out on the table, too, right? Because people aren’t going to buy something associated with the 13th floor, or the 13th row of seats.

Brian: And because of the market, even though I have no problem living on the 13th floor, I would avoid it because it would hurt the resale value knowing that somebody else out there might not buy my condo because it’s on the 13th floor.

Joanne Freeman: Right.

Nathan Connolly: Right, right, right. And some of this stuff has indeed been tracked. I mean, you have these research centers that study consumer behavior on Friday the 13th, and according to one study from 2004, almost a billion dollars in revenue gets lost on Friday the 13th simply by people changing their habits to avoid bad luck. You can get a discount from wedding venues if you want to have your ceremony on Friday the 13th.

Brian: Especially if you hold it on the 13th floor.

Nathan Connolly: Exactly.

Joanne Freeman: I feel like I’ve totally missed out on a discount factor.

Nathan Connolly: Right. Right, right, right. But I guess it’s just another reminder. If we can’t go back, and look at the sources, and say there’s definitely bad luck around the 13th of this, and the 13th of that … If you can’t be very concrete, it doesn’t mean that people aren’t thinking about history with this number, or thinking about history in terms of luck. And I’m always fascinated by these folk understandings of the past, that you can somehow track bad things having happened on this particular date on the calendar that you may want to circle enough to want to change your behavior. Or that Americans in general think that they can simply control against future risk by staying indoors on a day like Friday the 13th. It actually is historical thinking, strangely enough.

Joanne Freeman: And it’s historical thinking, and it’s the word you just used, right? It’s about control. It’s about somehow or other wanting to come up with a theory that enables you to respond to events, or prevent things from happening by doing the right things, and somehow controlling randomness. So you randomly assign meaning to this number, and that gives you a way to act, according to some logic.

Brian: And I still believe that Friday the 13th is kind of a collective reminder to us all that blank happens, and better that it should all happen on one day-

Nathan Connolly: On one day, right.

Brian: -than be spread across the entire year.

Nathan Connolly: Yeah. It saddens me to share with both of you that bad luck may be more frequent than we think. The Gregorian calendar has one day that appears more frequently above all others and that’s Friday the 13th.

Joanne Freeman: Okay, that’s weird. That’s just weird.

Brian Balogh: That’ll do it for us today. Thanks for joining me to take a look back at the BackStory archive. There are hundreds of other shows available at our website backstoryradio.org. You can keep the conversation going online. Let us know what you thought of an episode or ask us your question about history. Send us an email at backstory@virginia.edu we’re also on Facebook and Twitter @backstoryradio. BackStory is produced at Virginia Humanities. Major support is provided by an anonymous donr, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the Joseph and Robert Cornell Memorial Foundation, the Johns Hopkins University and the Arthur Vining Davis foundations. Additional support is provided by the Tomato Fund, cultivating fresh ideas in arts and humanities and the environment.

Brian Balogh is professor of history at the University of Virginia Ed Ayers is professor of the humanities and president emeritus of the University of Richmond. Joanne Freeman is professor of history and American studies at Yale University. Nathan Connolly is the Herbert Baxter Adams associate professor of history at the Johns Hopkins University. Backstory was created by Andrew Wyndham for Virginia Humanities.