[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":79},["ShallowReactive",2],{"episode-best-of-brian":3},{"id":4,"slug":5,"title":6,"subtitle":7,"pubdate":8,"tags":13,"thumb":14,"excerpt":20,"content":21,"transcript":22,"transcript_file":23,"audio":24,"resources":28,"segments":29},32,"best-of-brian","Best of BackStory","The Time Brian Balogh Went to a Monastery",{"utc":9,"short":10,"medium":11,"long":12},1585311118,"03.27.20","Mar 27, 2020","March 27, 2020",[],{"src":15,"caption":16,"derivatives":17},"https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Fimages\u002Fbest-of-brian\u002Fwebsite-Brian_BoB.jpg","Brian Balogh headshot against white background, to the right are the words \"The Best of BackStory\"",{"square_small":18,"square_medium":19},"https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Fimages\u002Fbest-of-brian\u002Fsquare_small\u002Fwebsite-Brian_BoB.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Fimages\u002Fbest-of-brian\u002Fsquare_medium\u002Fwebsite-Brian_BoB.jpg","On this episode of BackStory, Brian brings you three of his favorite interviews from his time on the show.","\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As BackStory wraps up production, we’ve asked our hosts to select memorable moments from the show.  \u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A founding host of the show, Brian Balogh has discussed a range of topics with a lot of different people – academic historians, museum curators, and even politicians. But some of his favorite conversations have been with everyday people who have lived and engaged with history, sometimes in surprising ways. \u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So in this edition of the “Best of BackStory,” Brian brings you three of his favorite interviews from his time at BackStory. You’ll hear from a member of a prison work crew, and find out what life is like behind the walls of a Catholic convent. Finally, you’ll learn about the American twist on a classic Mexican dish. \u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Ffiles\u002Fbest-of-brian\u002Ftranscript\u002FBest-Of-BackStory_Brian-1.pdf",{"url":25,"duration":26,"formatted_duration":27},"https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Faudio\u002Fepisodes\u002Fbest-of-brian.mp3","1552","00:25:52",[],[30,48,64],{"index":31,"title":32,"description":33,"audio":34,"tags":38,"transcript":42,"episode":43},0,"Chain Gang","\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">American prisons have been a source of cheap labor since their very inception. Back in 2008, Brian talked with members of a prison work crew and asked about their experience working for low wages on the side of a road in Virginia. You might be surprised with what they have to say.\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">From “\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.backstoryradio.org\u002Fshows\u002Fland-of-the-free\u002F\">\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Land of the Free? The History of Incarceration in the U.S.\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fa>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">”\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n",{"url":35,"duration":36,"formatted_duration":37},"https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Faudio\u002Fsegments\u002Fbest-of-brian\u002Fbest-of-brian-01.mp3","371","00:06:11",[39,40,41],"prison labor","prisons","punishment","\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nMajor funding for Backstory is provided by an anonymous donor. The National Endowment for the Humanities and the Joseph and Robert Cornell Memorial Foundation.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nFrom Virginia Humanities, this is Backstory.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nWelcome to Backstory. The show that explains the history behind today’s headlines. I’m Brian Balogh.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIf you’re new to the podcast, each week, along with my colleagues, Joanne Freeman, Nathan Connelly and Ed Ayers, we explore a different aspect of American history.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIn my time at Backstory, I’ve discussed a whole range of different topics with a lot of different people. I’ve talked to academic historians, sometimes even politicians. But the conversations that stand out most in my mind are the ones I’ve had with everyday people. People who have lived, made and engaged with history, sometimes in surprising ways.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nThese are the people that are coming to grips with the product of history on a day to day basis, and of course these are the people who are quite literally making history as we podcast.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nSo on today’s episode, I’m excited to share some of my favorite Backstory moments with you. This is part of an ongoing series we’re doing as Backstory wraps up after more than 12 years.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nYou’ll learn about the American twist on a traditional Mexican dish and you’ll revisit a trip I took to the Blue Ridge Mountains to find out what life is like behind the walls of a Catholic convent. But first up, I wanted to share a conversation I had back in 2008 with members of a prison work crew on the side of a road in Virginia.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nOver the years, scholars have spent a lot of time talking about something they call the carceral state. It’s a term that refers to the criminal justice system. The power it gives to police officers, lawyers and judges, and how it disproportionately affects marginalized peoples. I wanted to know what’s like to live in the grips of the carceral state and to work on the side of a busy road on display to passing motorists in orange jumpsuits.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI talked to our producers at Backstory because I had seen these people at work and I said, “You know, we’re doing a show on the history of prisons. I want to talk to those folks on the side of the road.” So here’s my conversation from Land of the Free, the History of Incarceration in the US.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nMy name is Corporal Harris Bruce, from Albemarle Charlottesville Regional Jail. I’m the supervisor for the road gang. Today we is on Avon Street, cleaning up.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nMy first question for you is, is this a punishment or is this a reward? I mean, I drive by, I think punishment. But then it occurs to me, this might be better than sitting in jail.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nIt is. The guys enjoy coming out. I mean, they love the weather, they love the scenery. This is actually a gift.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nSo what have these guys done to earn this gift?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nWell, depending on the years they got. If they were sentenced us for three years or less, they can ask to come on board. A lot of guys can’t come on due to the fact they got over three years and their crimes. Like cocaine and stuff that can’t come out. Assault charges, they can’t come on. These guys were here is mainly child support, DUI type guys, so they can actually come out and work.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nWe are a history show and certainly over the course of history, one form of punishment for people who have committed crimes has been kind of public humiliation, public shame.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nSo putting people in stocks and we’ve heard about the Scarlet Letter for adulterers. Is there anything about making these guys wear our orange and having them along this pretty well traveled street here that entails humiliation? Are they embarrassed?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nNo, no. Actually the orange is an indication of the best inmates that we have in a building. The worst inmates, actually, I say worst, the guys that can’t come out, they wear black and white. These guys right here wear oranges mainly. They are trustees and they can be trusted. I tell you what, I’ll go get one.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nAll right.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI really appreciate you talking to us today. I want to get a view from your perspective of what this is all about. At least Corporal Bruce says that this is a privilege to be able to come out here, get a little fresh air.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nNow he’s carrying that big stick and has a gun. So I understand you have to think carefully about how you answer this question but what is it like for you to… Is this a punishment or is this a reward for you?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nMentally being away from my family, just being incarcerated, period, that is punishment. You know what I’m saying? But as far as being out here? No, man, it’s a privilege, man. I love it. I get to come out here and get fresh air, you know what I’m saying? Sunlight. A lot of people don’t have that privilege. They’re confined to a small space all day, got to look at a whole bunch of other people that’s just like them. I mean, I don’t know.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nWe’re standing out here by a road. People are driving by. How do you feel about the public aspect of this? Are you ashamed or do you see people sometimes? Anyone ever ask someone to get you a cheeseburger on the way? Or how does that work?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nSometimes, it’s sometimes, see, I’m from Albemarle County. So sometimes depending on the area when I do feel a little ashamed but I mean, this program takes very good care of me, you know what I’m saying? I get paid for what I do, so I don’t have to call home, ask for money or anything like that, so basically I see it, they’re going to work, so am I.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nCan I ask you how much you get paid for this?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nWe get paid $3 a day. $15 a week.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nUh-huh (affirmative) Can I ask you how long you’ve been in prison?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nI’ve been locked up, going on 22 months.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nAnd may I ask you when you think you’re going to get out?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nI get out December 19th, God willing.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nMay I ask you, and you don’t have to answer this, what you’re in for?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nI’m here for a violation and driving on a revoked license.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI see. Seems like a lot of time for revoked license.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nYeah, well, after they see you for a couple of times, more than twice, then they tend to lay the hammer down on you.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nYeah. Do you think all this time you spent in prison is going to have any effect at all?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nI’ll tell you what. The last few times I came to jail, I didn’t want to change my behavior. After this time, I can’t do it no more.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nWhat’s the difference?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nAge. I’ve gotten older. I’ve matured. I’m 30 years old.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\n30 years old.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nYep. In my adolescent days, I didn’t really care. I rip around the streets, didn’t really care much. But now I have kids, I got three children. So they need a father figure, you know what I’m saying? And I got to be a role model. I don’t want my sons to go through what I’ve had to go through.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nCould I ask you how often you get to see your kids?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nI don’t. I don’t see them.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nYou don’t see them?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nNo, I don’t.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nIs that the toughest thing about being in prison?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nYeah. That’s it.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Harris Bruce:\u003Cbr>\nI can imagine. Well, I really appreciate you talking to me today and I wish you the best of luck.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 3:\u003Cbr>\nThank you.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":4,"slug":5,"title":6,"subtitle":7,"pubdate":44,"tags":45,"thumb":46},{"utc":9,"short":10,"medium":11,"long":12},[],{"src":15,"caption":16,"derivatives":47},{"square_small":18,"square_medium":19},{"index":49,"title":50,"description":51,"audio":52,"tags":56,"transcript":58,"episode":59},1,"Nun But the Truth","\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Host Brian Balogh heads to \u003C\u002Fspan>\u003Ca href=\"http:\u002F\u002Fwww.olamonastery.org\u002F\">\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our Lady of the Angels\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fa>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, a Trappist monastery in the Blue Ridge Mountains, to find out what life is really like behind the walls of a convent.\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">From “\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.backstoryradio.org\u002Fshows\u002Fcatholics-in-america\u002F\">\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Catholics in America\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fa>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">”\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n",{"url":53,"duration":54,"formatted_duration":55},"https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Faudio\u002Fsegments\u002Fbest-of-brian\u002Fbest-of-brian-02.mp3","404","00:06:44",[57],"Catholicism","\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nNow we’re going to take a look at what life is like within the confines of another very different institution. A Catholic convent.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIt was all part of a broader exploration of Catholicism in America. And in particular, how the experiences of Catholics have changed from the 18th to 19th centuries to today.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nNot being Catholic myself, I knew very little about the religious practices of nuns and even less about how they live on a day to day basis. So this turned out to be an absolutely fascinating clips at the way nuns combine their religion and their day-to-day lives almost seamlessly.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nSo here’s my conversation from the show. Catholics in America. As it turns out, there’s a Trappist monastery down the road from our studios in Charlottesville, Virginia. It’s one of just 17 across the country. So I took a trip out there with our producer, Emily Gadeck.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Emily Gadek:\u003Cbr>\nAll right. Here we go.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nOur Lady of the Angels sits at the end of a dirt road. It’s on the edge of the forest and the Blue Ridge Mountains. The building, it’s nothing fancy. It looks like the kind of two-story brick church you might see in a new suburb.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Speaker 5:\u003Cbr>\nHello. May I help you?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nHello.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Emily Gadek:\u003Cbr>\nHi.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\n13 sisters live in the monastery. We spoke to four of them- Sister Barbara, who helped found the convent in the late 1980s, Sister Sophy who came from India, Sister Maria originally from Spain and Sister Kathy who joined the community after serving in the United States Air Force for 15 years.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Kathy:\u003Cbr>\nI’m entering my 15th year in the monastery. So I’ve now been in the monastery as long as I was on active duty.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI know you don’t say mazel tov, but congratulations. Is that in order?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Kathy:\u003Cbr>\nThank you. Yes, yes.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIt’s no surprise that the sisters’ lives were nothing like the horrors Rebecca Reed detailed in the 1830s. Much of their daily life in that monastery revolves around prayer. Sister Barbara told us that their day begins at 3:00 AM. That’s when the sisters rise for their first of many rounds of prayer throughout the day.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nBut the nuns also work. For Our Lady of the Angels, that means making sinfully good Gouda cheese. People come from miles around to buy it. Here’s system Maria describing the process.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Maria:\u003Cbr>\nI’m what we call the cheese cook, the one who… That’s a part of the process of making the cheese, turning the milk into cheese. So besides put in the culture and all the things you have to put in there so that you get cheese at the end, most of the time we work in silence. So when we are working, we are praying with our whole body. I do put a lot of prayers for the people who are going to have the cheese, for so many people who ask us for prayers, who tell us about their troubles in their families.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nAnd just like any homeowners, Sister Kathy says they have to put a lot of work into simply maintaining the place.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Kathy:\u003Cbr>\nSo a lot of my time during the day is either doing plumbing, calling a plumber. That’s where YouTube comes in handy because there isn’t anything you need to fix that you can’t find somebody doing it on YouTube.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI have to admit. These nuns surprised me. They laughed at my jokes, unlike most people. They watched YouTube and they had strong opinions about current issues like climate change. Sisters Kathy and Maria say they even surprise themselves by entering the convent.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Maria:\u003Cbr>\nI never thought about becoming a nun. I didn’t like nuns too much.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nWhy do you say that?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Maria:\u003Cbr>\nWell, we all have our own ideas of what people do. I mean, I wasn’t the kind of person I thought that was going to be a nun.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Kathy:\u003Cbr>\nI kind of had the same experience that Maria had. It was an oh, no kind of experience. I never thought of cloistered life as being for me. I’ve always been pretty active and enjoyed being in the world. But there were some clear messages that came. It just grew more and more in my heart that really the significance and importance of prayer in my life.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI love writing history. But I will confess, if I could use that word, that there are days- and sometimes even months- where I have real doubts about my chosen life as an historian. None of you expressed any doubt about your faith itself. You’ve expressed doubt perhaps about being in the right place. Have you experienced those moments?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Kathy:\u003Cbr>\nSure. I think that’s part of the Christian life. And a doubt is the flip side of faith as we eventually what makes our faith even stronger. I remember saying to our superior that I’ve finally reached a point where I was pretty certain that I was… What’s the word for people who don’t believe in God?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Emily Gadek:\u003Cbr>\nAtheist.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nAgnostic or Atheist.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Kathy:\u003Cbr>\nAtheist. Okay. I can’t believe I can’t remember these words. But I told her, I said, “Well, I think I’m atheist. I don’t think I believe in God anymore.” And her simple response was, “Well, that’s nice.” It will pass. That’s fine. And she’s right. It does pass.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nTwo of you mentioned that when you realized that you were being called, your response was uh-oh. And given that that’s a pretty typical reaction, or, to put it another way, that this is an unusual form of life in this very modern society we live in. Do you ever worry about the future? Do you worry about the continuation of this way of life?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Sister Kathy:\u003Cbr>\nAs far as worry, not worry. I think the monastic life will last as long as the humankind lives, because it speaks to something deep in the human heart. Maria was saying a few moments ago, this desire to give oneself totally to God and to receive as much of God as God will give in this life, to put it one way. But individual monasteries won’t last forever. No human institution does. And that doesn’t matter. So I’m concerned, but not worry. The best contribution we can make to that is just living the life as fully with as much of our love as we can.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nThanks to Sisters Barbara, Sophy, Maria, and Kathy from Our Lady of the Angels, a Trappist monastery in Crozet, Virginia. You can find more information about the sisters, including how to purchase their cheese on their website. olamonastery.org.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":4,"slug":5,"title":6,"subtitle":7,"pubdate":60,"tags":61,"thumb":62},{"utc":9,"short":10,"medium":11,"long":12},[],{"src":15,"caption":16,"derivatives":63},{"square_small":18,"square_medium":19},{"index":65,"title":66,"description":67,"audio":68,"tags":72,"transcript":73,"episode":74},2,"It’s a Wrap","\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Brian hits the road to talk (and eat) with \u003C\u002Fspan>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fpatijinich.com\u002Frecipe\u002Fchilorio-burritas\u002F\">\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Pati Jinich\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fa>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, chef and host of “Pati’s Mexican Kitchen.” They explore the roots of a Mexican staple that’s been transformed into something uniquely American: the burrito.\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">From “\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.backstoryradio.org\u002Fshows\u002Fwhats-cooking\u002F\">\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What’s Cooking? A History of Food in America\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fa>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">”\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Find Pati Jinich’s recipe for Chilorio Burritas (and more) on her \u003C\u002Fspan>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fpatijinich.com\u002Fchilorio-burritas\u002F\">\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">website\u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fa>\u003Cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. \u003C\u002Fspan>\u003C\u002Fp>\n",{"url":69,"duration":70,"formatted_duration":71},"https:\u002F\u002Fs3.amazonaws.com\u002Fcdn.backstoryradio.org\u002Faudio\u002Fsegments\u002Fbest-of-brian\u002Fbest-of-brian-03.mp3","526","00:08:46",[],"\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIf you’re not hungry from all that talk of cheese or you just want more cheesy jokes, don’t worry. We’ve got just a little bit more for you.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI wanted to end this edition of the best of Backstory with an interview I did with Pati Jinich, the host of the PBS show Pati’s Mexican Kitchen.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nBack in 2017, I visited Pati at her home outside of Washington D.C. We talked about all things cooking. In particular, the roots of a Mexican staple turned American classic, the burrito. And I’m not talking about mules.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nHey.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nHola.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nHey, Brian.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nSoy Brian.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nHow are you?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nComo estas?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nNice to meet you.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nRamona?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nOf course- [crosstalk 00:16:20]\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nBeautiful house.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nThank you. Thank you. It’s a little bit not Mexican outside, but once you come in it feels very-\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nShe takes us into her kitchen and picks up something that looks kind of like a bell pepper.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nSo this is the poblano chile. It’s my favorite chile because it’s adorable. Just look at it. It’s like super curvy, it’s chubby, it’s shiny.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nYou mean you play favorites with your chile.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nThis is my favorite, really, of them. Well, no. The chipotle, too. Now, I don’t know. I mean, I love the poblanos. So this is fresh. And the-\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nJinich is passionate about Mexican food. She grew up in Mexico City and she’s lived in the US for 20 years now. So I was anxious to hear her thoughts on Mexican food in the US, especially the American burrito.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nI don’t know who decided to add everything into the burrito, which was the meat, the seasoned meat or chicken or whatever protein. And then, oh, if you’re going to eat the rice and the beans, why don’t we throw it in there too? So it’s the rice and the beans and the guacamole. And then these other American garnishes are added. The sour cream and the cheddar cheese and more salsa. I think that Americans absolutely love the burritos and Mexicans look at the American burritos and think, “Oh my God, what did they do to this dish?” So I want to show you the Mexican way.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nSo you might have found something like the burrito in the 16th century, when Spanish conquistadors introduced wheat flour to the native diet.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nSo in the South of Mexico, everybody was making corn tortillas. And there was no way to add flour tortillas to that repertoire. Because the South of Mexico adores it’s corn tortillas. But from the center to the north, they started adapting the tortillas to the flour tortilla, which was also sort of a variation of the pan arabe, or pita bread, that the Spanish had brought with them.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIt turns out the American burrito is a direct descendant of the Mexican burrita.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nAlways made with a flour tortilla that is fresh. Either just made or from tortilleria. And it’s always heated, it’s never served cold or as a wrap. It only has one ingredient, but the gradient is one exquisite ingredient. It’s not a piece of meat that you throw in there. It’s chilorio, for example, which is what I made for you, which is pork butt or shoulder. You have to use meat that still has fat in it and it has orange juice and water. So the meat first cooks in that until it’s completely cooked and it starts caramelizing. And then you shred that meat and you finish it off in an ancho chile sauce or adobo. The ancho chile sauce or adobo has ancho chiles. You have to remove the stem.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nAnd then after you remove the stem, you open it up and then you let all of the seeds out. White onion, garlic cloves, parsley, oregano, a judicious amount of cumin, black pepper, and vinegar. I like to add a splash of apple cider vinegar. And then you just let that cook until the liquid has become very thick and the meat has really absorbed it. And then you have this.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nPati rolled the chilorio in a flour tortilla. And when I finally got to taste it…\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nThat’s amazing.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nWhat does it taste like?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIt tastes succulent and spicy. The flavors just keep exploding. They’re absolutely amazing.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nSo some people will also add some avocado slices on the side or guacamole. But the thing is when you don’t pack everything together, you can really shine a light on the taste of the chilorio and a well-made flour tortilla. When you throw everything in there, you can’t appreciate, I think.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIt’s almost like a philosophy for life.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nRight. Right. Mm-hmm (affirmative).\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nI must tell you, this is really the most amazing food.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nThis is really low-key Mexican food. I mean, this is nothing sophisticated. This is really, burritos or burritas made with chilorio or machaca are really workers, construction site workers.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nRight. The guys doing your street.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nYeah. But there’s this pride for all Mexicans that no matter who you are, where you come from, food is fabulous.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nIt was one final step in my burrito investigation. We brought a pork burrito from a popular national chain, which I will not name, for a taste test for scientific rigor.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nI’m game.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nOkay, let’s open this up. I’ll give you instructions too.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nOkay.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nFirst you opened the bag.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nRight.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nRight? Many would throw the bag out their car window. No, I’m just kidding. We would never do that. So already you can see the difference. This is gigantic. Gargantuan. You might say even after we cut it in half.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nTortilla is probably the size of a pizza, right?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nThis is the Burrito H Chicago, apparently.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nOh my gosh.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nRight?\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nOkay.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nMind you, whoever assembled this didn’t begin to put all the possibilities in yet. There are what, at least five, six, seven different ingredients.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nI want to taste the meat that went in here.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nOkay.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nOkay. Let me see.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nThis is the first time I’ve seen you stopped smiling since we walked into the house.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nI don’t love it. This, I think, is like if you’re starving and they give this to you, you eat it and you’re thankful. But I don’t think this is something that you stop and sit down for.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nRight. Entirely forgettable.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Pati Jinich:\u003Cbr>\nRight. But I’m very grateful that you brought it.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nPati Jinich hosts the award winning PBS show Pati’s Mexican Table. You can find a recipe for chilorio burritas on our website at backstoryradio.org.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nThat’s going to do it for us today. Thanks for joining me in this look back to some of my favorite moments from Backstory. I’d love to know your thoughts about these segments. But what some of your favorite backstory moments have been? You’ll find us at backstoryradio.org. Or send an email to backstory@virginia.edu. We’re also on Facebook and Twitter @backstoryradio.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nBackstory is produced from Virginia Humanities. Major support is provided by an anonymous donor, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the Joseph and Robert Cornell Memorial Foundation, the Johns Hopkins University and the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations. Additional support is provided by the Tomato Fund, cultivating fresh ideas in the arts, the humanities, and the environment.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nBrian Balogh is professor of history at the University of Virginia. Ed Ayers is professor of the humanities and president emeritus of the University of Richmond. Joanne Freeman is professor of history and American studies at Yale University. Nathan Connolly is the Herbert Baxter Adams associate professor of history at the Johns Hopkins University.\u003C\u002Fp>\u003Cp>Brian Balogh:\u003Cbr>\nBackstory was created by Andrew Wyndham for Virginia Humanities.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":4,"slug":5,"title":6,"subtitle":7,"pubdate":75,"tags":76,"thumb":77},{"utc":9,"short":10,"medium":11,"long":12},[],{"src":15,"caption":16,"derivatives":78},{"square_small":18,"square_medium":19},1790963933842]